Off-Topic@Heyuri

Somewhat off topic, but I do not believe religions truly exist. Not anymore. No one exposed to modern sciences could believe a god whole-heartedly. They may say they do, and even act out the motions and rituals, but deep down, they do not believe. All that is left are fringe cultists and uncontacted, undeveloped peoples who do not know of science.

>>81988

It depends on where you are. I know people who are very devout, but believe in science selectively. (i.e: no evolution, God did the big bang). I think most of the very devout people you are talking about are in the East.

Unrelated, but are there any Christians on heyuri?

I'd think not, but who knows what's behind that anon green and blue

>but deep down, they do not believe
There's no way of knowing or checking that. In any case, i don't think trusting science and believing in God are exclusive ideals
You can atribute any science concept to God's/Gods' will. Evolution? God made it work that way, big bang? that was God, etc.
There's also the problem of assuming God is synonimous with Christian God. If you go back and read greek philosophy you'll recognize the concept of the Arche, which shares the basic premise of the christian God minus all the backstory

>>81990
Yes. Why not?

>>81988
Depends. If you mean the whole death of God phenomenon then maybe. If your saying science is this infallible path to the truth and religion is for stupid people then thats just obviously wrong. Science is as illusory and flawed as every other human system. In some ways its even more dangerous and absurd.

>>81990
I've seen a few sinful Christians here but most Heyuri users are secular I think. I remember there being a poll about it.

Western society has basically killed religion, especially over the last few decades, and exports consumerist nihilism as the new religion across the world. It's hard being religious these days because its like planned obsolescence. Society forces consumerism down your throat so your living in a society that thinks you are crazy for being religious instead of idol worshiping Apple or Elon Musk or whatever brand is hot now.

>>81990
I am and I know there are others. Although I'm not very devout and I don't really fit in with the Christians in my region.

>>82014
I'm Christian, but I remain Christian bc there was that whole verse where Jesus said "Remember they hated me first", which teaches us to remain faithful even in hardship because that's what Jesus would do

>>82019
Were you born into it, or did you convert?

I was raised in an irreligious household, only converting well into adulthood. Since then I've tried to stop believing, but I can't. I often miss the days of completely guilt free wanton indulgence in vice that agnosticism allowed me. I don't go to church or have Christian friends - there's no peer pressure involved, rather people are often averse to my views and mock me when they find out. I have every incentive to not be and yet I am, because it's simply a part of who I am and something that I cannot control.

>All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

I was just reading Weirdo Magazine when I saw some SubGenius literature. I guess R.Crumb was into this kind of stuff...

ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!!

ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!!

ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!!

>>82023
Born into it, but I don't think I could leave Christianity (Church of Christ specifically). It just makes more sense to me than anything else.

>>82024
Holy shit, western denpa religion!

>>82023
>people are often averse to my views and mock me when they find out
Wait people mock you for it?

I thought America was a Christian country?

>>82032
It is, but it's becoming more atheist and shunned by the general population.

>subgenius.com
TL;DR

>>82040
Your post is too long, bastard... Shorten that shit.

>82042
ur pst lnger thn his lol

>>82017
>>82023
how does Christian heyurians reconcile their faith alongside this site's generally sinful nature (namely the pornographic aspect)?

>>82059
Hide post userscript but I uninstalled it a week ago by mistake. Does someone have it?

The thought of there being a Christian on Heyuri who is trying to hide all the pr0nz I post made me LOL

>>82061
I thought it was a fair question

>>82062
Not bcuz im Christian. I just don't like to see porn.

>>82059
you can just hide the porn by something i call zooming in to avoid the porn

HEYURI IS SINFUL?

HEYURI IS WINFUL

dont play dumb anons, this site is EVIL and harbors evil spirits

>>82028
That's good anon.

>>82032
I don't live in America, but I was mostly talking about the internet anyway. I usually just keep my faith a secret now unless someone asks.

>>82059
I don't normally jack off to the porn posted on this board. I don't think simply looking at porn in passing without any desire for it is a sin. But as for the porn I do jack off to... I don't justify it. I'm a sinner and that's all there is to it. That's why we have atonement.

Honestly the bigger snare with using imageboards, and internet generally is getting into an argument with someone and saying something cruel to them.

>He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
>Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

>>82059

Fro the pr0n, ignore it. I don't come to Heyuri for that anyway. I know I am a sinner, so I try to minimize the sin I commit on Heyuri. Most of the posts I make here are pretty "innocent" .

>>82095
Heyuri is pretty innocent compared to most places on the internet these days. Aside from the weird rape spam at least. But that's not our fault.

>>82096

I consider posting about lolis (and raping them) to be pretty not innocent, but if you're talking about the upbeat and carefree nature, I agree.

>>82097
I'll take loli raep cartoons over the disgusting output of the Western
3DPD porn industry any day.

>>81988
I don't believe people believe in gods of the all-seeing, all-powerful, world-creator sense anymore either, but it's not because of 'science', it's because they simply don't act like they do. They think of their gods as vending machines that sometime grant their mundane prayers to get stuff, or sticks to beat other people over the head with.

Most mainstream religions outright discourage proper human interaction with their gods on risk of it being 'a trick of the Devil', or 'becoming a false prophet', or other things.

This all applies to your scientism as well, by the way.

Somewhat serious post, but if people truly believed in the afterlife they wouldn't feel grief. What's a lifetime of separation compared to the eternal fun we'll all have in heaven amirite? Deep down, people know they'll never see them again.

>>82114
You can't be sure someone went to heaven (or its counterpart in other religions) so grief does make sense

>>82113
I think that is a problem, especially with certain sects of Christianity, but personally I feel close to Him. Like you call God "Father", why not treat him like one?

>>82114
The exact same thing can be said about atheists though. Why exactly should you be sad for someone that can no longer experience suffering? You should be happy for them since they have eternal rest. You shouldn't fear death either, yet you do.

I'm not Christian but religious and I don't mind 2D porn. It can't be wrong if it's not "real." I just hate the 3DPD stuff. Sometimes I'll look at it if there's something lol worthy but I just ignore it otherwise. I have no problem with 2D or text only porn. The 3D porn industry is fucking evil. Just check out some interviews with ex "pornstars."

What other sinful stuff is there on Heyuri? Occasional (mostly funny) racism and rude behavior. Heyuri is a surprisingly well behaved imageboard

>>82132
>>82095
This feels odd though. I think most 'Christians' would be turned off by anything that was 1/3 loli hentai, or any form of pornographic material. if a book store had 1/3 of their books being erotica, i feel as though most Christians would not go there out of principle, even if its the other books they're going for.

>racism and rude behavior
The racism here is truly for teh lulz though and not sincere from what I've seen. Well there is that guy in the other thread saying the Jews killed Michael Jackson but that's the first time I've seen something like that here.

The fact that this place is so apolitical alone makes it more innocent than most of the modern interwebz. All sides of the political spectrum are murderous. /pol/fags and lefty/pol/ more obviously, since they are trying to resurrect authoritarian ideologies that killed millions of people, but also the mainstream libs and conservatives because they're indifferent towards forever wars against terrorism, torture and censorship.

Also this place is extremely polite for an anonymous website. Here we are in a discussion about religion and no one has been called a slur yet.


People here just wanna have a good time.

>>82135
>and no one has been called a slur yet
Mutie.

>>82132
(meant to only tag you in this post)
>I'm not Christian but religious and I don't mind 2D porn. It can't be wrong if it's not "real." I just hate the 3DPD stuff. Sometimes I'll look at it if there's something lol worthy but I just ignore it otherwise. I have no problem with 2D or text only porn. The 3D porn industry is fucking evil. Just check out some interviews with ex "pornstars."
this is weird and vague. firstly, do you oppose pornography only on the basis of it abusing the pornstars? if so, then that's truly a nothing statement. I think everyone agrees that people shouldn't be abused.
If you oppose it on terms of it being 'morally' wrong, surely the content does not change because it's 2D and not 3D?
Either way, it's hard to make a statement for or against what you are saying, as you made no hint as to your religious views or from where you derive your morals.

>>82135
Well, as the flag threads (and other threads) proved, many Heyurizens are Trukish or Polish. Both of these demographics don't really like the jewish people, you know

But we should probably stop talking about it, this is really going into teh rule 7 teritory

>>82133
What about Buddhists though? I've known Buddhists that have no issues with coming to sites like this, or far worse ones. But Gautama Buddha taught that all life is suffering, and that desire is the cause of suffering. Surely then Buddhists should have the reputation of being the biggest prudes, rather than Christians.

Perhaps your definition of what a Christian is in fact too narrow to be accurate, and actually only applies to a certain segment of modern Christians, namely fundamentalists who, ostensibly at least, are perfectly pious in every aspect of their lives. They're very often just as sinful as anyone and only hide it better, making them hypocrites. I'd rather just be a sinner than a boastful, arrogant, proud, zealous hypocrite sinner.

>I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Great picture by the way.

Anonymous SAGE! 2023/11/22(Wed)13:39:39 No.82142

Internet people are rarely representatives of their countries' majority opinion
Mentioning politics isn't Rule 7, but it's not this thread's topic either

>>82118 and >>82130 are interesting, but I'm not really sure if they're simple counter-arguments for the sake of it, or if you truly believe it.

>You can't be sure someone went to heaven
Christian dogma makes it really clear god is merciful and forgiving. I think baptized (scholar disagree about limbo and stuff) babies are the most likely to go to heaven since they are the least affected by original sin, and I can't see what evil they can do at this age. How would they end up in hell? Then by your logic, christians wouldn't mourn dead babies!!!???!? (lolawesum)
Grieving is dealing with loss, not wondering where that person went... If you go to a funeral, you won't see people wondering about the future of a deceased, but recalling their past...

>Why exactly should you be sad for someone that can no longer experience suffering?
I have heard that one before but I can't understand it either, grief isn't the same as compassion. Also it sound like you think atheists are hedonists who only care about pleasure and pain.
Why do you think people mourn a relative affected by Alzheimer's disease, for example? They're not thinking "man, forgetting everything isn't handy" but more "that person that I once knew, their identity, the memories we shared, is disappearing". Something that once was, is gone forever...

I hope this isn't too depressing, but you know, it's rare to see civilized discussion about this.

>>82135
Yeah, Heyuri is great. I'll admit I'm a little biased towards /leftypol/ because at least you can have a decent discussion with them but /pol/ is just deranged. I'm also an ex-leftie so maybe that's just bias

>>82137
I'm a follower of Ibn Arabi.

I don't want to get into a long debate on 3DPD porn. I'm just personally and religiously against it for a lot of reasons. That stuff rots your soul and the way its made is really fucked up. 3D porn and written erotica have more narrative, actual characters, there's more imagination and fantasy involved and actual art worth appreciating. 3DPD porn is just overstimulating and 99% of it is just there to get you to jerk off ASAP and get you hooked.

>>82141
Buddhists associate all desire with suffering, not just sexual desire. Whereas Christians associate sex specifically with original sin. Sexual desire for Eve is what tempted Adam to sin and caused the Fall. In that sense, Christians are more prudish because they single out sexuality as a problem and invent all these rules to control it more than anyone else. For Buddhists, sex isn't any different to eating too much or being greedy.

I actually think secular people can be more prudish than religious people because religious people can do immoral and sinful things and atone for their sins or go to a temple and get them washed away and there's always a path for you to fix yourself and become a better person.

Also, there's a lot of really lol worthy religious porn back in the day. There's a part in Rumi where a woman has sex with a donkey and a lot of drawn and written Chinese/Japanese porn had Buddhist themes in it.

>>82151
>Christians are more prudish because they single out sexuality as a problem and invent all these rules to control it more than anyone else

I disagree. In Genesis God specifically says "go forth and multiply" and "they shall become one flesh." The Bible even has erotic literature in it - the Song of Solomon. Marriage is a sacrament and sex is the core of marriage. When enjoyed within the parameters of God's will, sex is not only permissible but holy.

Furthermore norms about sex in Christian society have changed over time. In the Middle Ages it was common for an entire family to share one large bed and the parents would have sex with their children in bed next to them watching. I've also heard that sex in public was common. To Christians in this period, sex wasn't something dirty or wrong, as long as you were married it was all good and a wholesome part of life. In the 15th century a royal mistress even brought about a fad of women showing bare breasts, which later came back in fashion in the 18th century.

I think this impression you have of Christianity is largely based on Victorian views about sex, which does still influence Christianity to this day but that isn't the whole story. Basically, don't assume that Victorian sexual morality is the same thing as Christian sexual morality.

One could tell a similar story with the history of sex in Islamic societies. I don't think any such donkey sex poetry has come out the Islamic world in the postcolonial period.

Isn't that just cultural norms changing?

I am not from a christian country but I've always observed people putting culture before religion.

>>82166
I would also like to append to this the observation that Christian mystical poetry has also contained erotic symbolism. St. John of the Cross' poem the Dark Night of the Soul and the writings of Mechthild of Madgeburg. I'm sure there are more that I don't know about too.

Many also wonder about these Renaissance paintings of St. Sebastian.

>>82169
Well yes, but anon said "I don't think many Christians would walk into a bookstore where 1/3 of the books were porn." I'm demonstrating that prudishness has to do with the culture more than the religion.

>>82166
Victorian morality didn't come from nowhere. Some say it had a link to Catholicism and the ritual of confession but even medieval Catholics weren't

that

prudish. The focus on monogamy and marriage are definitely Christian. But how did medieval kings get away with having mistresses? Victorian sexual morality was actually very secular and based on reason, science, medicine, and social hygiene etc. But why has it been so influential on Christians and religious people in general? Modern Muslims have become Victorian thanks to colonization and apparently Hindus and Buddhist are the same now too.

I haven't read a lot of Christian theology, but so far it seems sex is less significant in Christianity compared to Islam. What do modern Christians believe though?

I guess if we're being straight, Jainism or some fringe sects like the Skoptsy are the most anti-sex religions but I don't know too much about the Jainas either

Why do so many religious people feel embarrassed about it? I've heard from Japanese online that they won't tell people they are Buddhists because they are afraid of being mocked for it. I didn't expect Christians to be the same way especially in America.

>>82174
lol formatting fail

>>82174
>Victorian sexual morality was actually very secular and based on reason, science, medicine, and social hygiene etc.
No it wasn't. The entire reason circumcision was popular in the English speaking world and is still popular in the United States is because it was a deterrent against masturbation, which was viewed as sinful and which they justified with medical (or pseudomedical) arguments after the fact (it makes you blind!). Paul specifically says in the Bible that circumcision counts for nothing, so circumcision in the Anglo world didn't come from Christianity, it came from the Victorians. And look at people like William Keith Kellog and Sylvester Graham who said you could eat corn flakes and crackers to cure horniness. They were both from that same Anglo fundamentalist milieu of the 19th and 20th centuries. There certainly was a visage of rationalism to their thinking but it was rooted in their Victorian views on sexuality.

>I haven't read a lot of Christian theology, but so far it seems sex is less significant in Christianity compared to Islam.
You haven't read the Song of Solomon obviously. Go ahead and read it, it's not long, and it's very beautiful.


>Modern Muslims have become Victorian thanks to colonization
Partially true but an oversimplification I reckon. Ibn Taymiyya created the Salafist stream of thought long before colonialism. Later on Victorian attitudes would help shape modern Islamic morality but the groundwork for Islamic fundamentalism had already been laid.

>But how did medieval kings get away with having mistresses?
I don't know, the same way Rumi got away with writing about donkey cock I guess. Both are proof that attitudes change and people just don't always care that much.

I think it would be good to move the discussion to /lounge/.

zOMG lounge emotes work in here!!

>>82177
Sure, you can point to religious social reform movements but there were plenty of secular ones too. Krafft-Ebing's Psychopathia Sexualis was the bible on sex disorders in the Victorian era and he doesn't make appeals to Christian values very often. Lots of secular people make a big deal of monogamy which comes from Christianity but they don't obsess over it for Christian reasons so its become secularized. If you look at the laws though, a lot of them were stuff aimed against indecency, unnatural behavior, crimes against nature etc. not sin.

>You haven't read the Song of Solomon obviously.
I have and its amazing. I just thought it was more a Jewish thing since they read it every Passover

Augustine saw sex as undignifying, Aquinas thought it was only acceptable within marriage which is necessary for procreation and in Corinthians Paul recommends celibacy but marriage is fine if you can't keep it in your pants. Then if you look at secular people like Kant and Freud you see this same attitude that sex is something undignifying and shitty and dangerous but they don't promote celibacy.

In Islamic theology and Sufism, a lot of concepts are sexual or explicitly related to sex in a pretty explicit way. It's baked into the cosmology. Rumi's story about a woman being fucked by a mule is supposed to be about Prophecy and reaching divine truth. Sadi is probably the most famous Muslim moralist and his books are full of yaoi shit and lewd sex jokes. A lot of Ottoman grand muftis openly wrote erotica and porn. They just didn't consider it immoral. It's hard imagining that now.

>Ibn Taymiyya created the Salafist stream of thought long before colonialism
He wasn't a Salafi. Ibn Taymiyya is just one of those people Salafis like to selectively quote to back themselves up, they have an ugly habit of doing this. Ibn Taymiyya was actually a Sufi which they ignore and he wasn't more prudish than anyone else really. "Islamic fundamentalism" isn't really a thing in terms of school of thought or doctrine. It's just a buzzword that politicians and journalists started using in the 80s. If you look at "Islamic fundamentalists" they don't share a single doctrine or a common book like The Fundamentals. They aren't prudish either. In Iran the religious conservatives insist on keeping temporary marriages and religious prostitution while the secularists and liberal reformists want to get rid of both. In the Arab world at least, the sexual prudes were often secular modernists and even Christians.

>>82178
your right probably a good idea to end it here this is /b/ after all

Humans are just monkeys. Religion and morality isnt real. Sex feels good so you should do it ヽ(´ー｀)ノ

>>81988
That's something I've been worried about with regards to modern religion. The issue isn't the death of God per se, but rather the loss of mysticism and literal belief. From what I understand, in general the people of the past literally believed in God/the gods, daimons (in the Greek sense), ghosts, the Longaevi (what we'd call fairies and elves), angels, demons, and so on. In their eyes, all of those beings were just as real as you and I. Then the Enlightenment came and it became totally uncool to believe in higher forces, especially if it went against rational beliefs. But that's just my limited understanding of the situation.
>>82113
I agree with what you say, but keep in mind that for every case of genuine divine inspiration, there's at least ten cases where it's mental illness, attention whoring, or spiritual deception (prelest, for the Orthodox Christians among us). There's a reason the Bible says to test the spirits, and that's because they love to troll us mortals.
>>82132
I think 2D porn can be good within certain limits. Loli raep, NTR, and guro don't do anything good for the soul, but happy loving sex with cute girls certainly does.

>>82183
Actually I think religion and morality are humanity's survival strategy for dealing with consciousness. If it weren't there we'd probably go around killing each other sadistically for resources and such, more than having sex.

A better question is why does religion and the occult become something weird after the Enlightenment? What changed?

The idea of the Enlightenment was that reason and science were the best way to find the truth and, through reason and science, humans could have power over nature. We don't believe in gods or spirits anymore because we can't control them or use them as resources. If it can't be turned into a raw material then it doesn't exist then it doesn't matter. This instrumental way of thinking dominates everything. Even people are now just "human resources" that only have value if they are useful to some corporation or politician. We are just meaningless statistics.

People weren't monkeys or invented religion or magic as a coping mechanism, we just invented a new way of thinking in the 1800s and decided to reject anything inconvenient to that worldview. Religion became even more inconvenient with the rise of neoliberal consumerism because that's all about buying and selling and being as selfish as possible. When I sometimes go to small villages I see people who really believe in djinns and spirits and possession. I've seen some freaky stuff

>>82181
>religious prostitution
"Hey guys, we're not prudes, look we even have misogynistic human rights abuses!"